USA, The Muslim Observer, interview with Mr. Adnan Oktar by Adil James, February 23rd, 2009
1)We learned about and reported your recent trouble with the Turkish authorities—could you please tell us what has happened and whether for now you are safe from any difficulty or harassment?
ADNAN OKTAR: This case began with a police operation against the Science Research Foundation (BAV) community in 1999. That was an operation initiated due to certain false claims made by the communist deep state organization and directed by it. Indeed, the director of the Organized Crimes branch of the time who conducted the operation against us is currently detained and on trial facing charges of membership of the so-called Ergenekon terror organization. Again, a famous journalist who constantly produced hostile reports about us during the course of that operation and who waged a serious psychological warfare campaign against my colleagues and me is also now in prison, charged with membership of the so-called Ergenekon terror organization, and the legal proceedings against him are still going on. Following trial proceedings lasting 8 years, the court brought in a guilty verdict against me and 3 female colleagues on charges on leading a running criminal enterprise. I have the greatest respect for the court's decision and I wish the members of the court the very best. But, on the other hand, nobody believes the allegation that I am the leader of a criminal gang. I must be the only gang leader who has written 300 books and has millions of readers. As a matter of fact, the public prosecutor in the case even said that the allegations were false and there was not a single piece of evidence to support them over those 8 years, and he twice requested that my colleagues and I be acquitted.
Let me briefly summarize the public prosecutor's legal opinion for you; he says, "There is no evidence against the defendants in that collected by the court." In other words, he says there is no evidence against us. Under Article 148/4 of the Turkish Criminal Code, statements taken in police custody in the absence of a lawyer cannot be admitted as evidence, and therefore cannot be accepted by the court. In other words, he says that our statements are invalid as they were taken under duress and in the absence of a lawyer. He also says that 6 of our colleagues were previously acquitted of the same charges on the basis of the same evidence and the same file. He then sets out his conclusion in the words: "In the absence of any evidence to show that Adnan Oktar established an enterprise for criminal purposes and that the other defendants committed the crimes of managing the enterprising and engaging in activities on its behalf, it is requested in the public name that the defendants be individually acquitted of all charges, under Article 223/2E of the Criminal Code." The public prosecutor said there was no crime and no evidence of any offense. But the court board decided differently. There is definitely goodness and wisdom in this and it is all for the best, insha’Allah. If Allah has seen fit to consign me to the School of Yusuf (Madrassa of Yusuf), I am honored by that.
2)You argue very passionately to refute the theory of evolution and you have made it very clear the importance evolution plays as a pillar of unbelief. But there has been a backlash from secular Muslims such as Syed Aslam and Mike Ghouse, who have been published in our newspaper and who seem singularly determined to attack your arguments, and who try to argue that belief in creationism is simply founded in insecurity and unwillingness to leave traditional or "unscientific" beliefs—please give a response specifically to Muslims who try to advocate evolution and try to paint it green.
ADNAN OKTAR: Ask these people how the angels and djinn were created. Will they be able to say they came into being through evolution? No, of course they will not. Or ask them if they can account in terms of evolution for how the Prophet Musa's (as) staff turned into a fully formed snake with digestive, motor and reproductive systems when he threw it down on the ground. When the Prophet Jesus (as) breathed on a bird-shaped object made out of mud, it turned into a living, flying bird. How do they explain that?
The fact is that behind the efforts of some Muslims to reconcile Islam and evolution in their own eyes, lie an element of ignorance and an element of defeatism, a fear of being unable to respond to Darwinism. These people imagine, with the knowledge of the 1900s, that evolution is a scientific theory and that opposing evolution means opposing science. But they are unaware that science refutes evolution. Evolution is a theory unable to explain even how a single protein came into being by chance, a theory at a complete dead-end. Moreover, not one of the 100 million fossils unearthed confirms evolutionists’ claims. Darwin admits that himself, saying, "Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined? Everything is highly regular and perfect", he says. Because Allah creates them, that is why. "But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed,why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?" he asks. Because evolution never happened, that is why. Does that not finish Darwinism right from the outset? There are 100 million fossils and they all prove Creation. So can one speak of Darwinism under such circumstances? Of course not.
3)What do you believe would be the effect in the Muslim community of widespread belief in evolution?
ADNAN OKTAR: There is no longer any possibility of that. Because I have proved the invalidity of evolution with very clear, manifest, scientific, technical and irrefutable evidence. People now smile when they listen to someone talking about evolution. The Islamic world is much more aware on this subject, insha'Allah, and apart from a few people deficient in knowledge, the Islamic world is now well aware of the kind of corruption Darwinism really is. Darwinism is a pagan religion. It is a primitive idea that goes back to Sumerian times. It is a heretical, abnormal religion that deifies matter (Allah is surely beyond that) and ascribes divine power to atoms with their own unwise acts. It has nothing to do with science. In paleontology and geology we investigate the strata of the earth and learn how creation took place. We examine those 100 million fossils one by one. And we compare them with living things today. And we see they have never changed at all, that there is no difference between living things’ earliest and final forms. That is science. But when we look at Darwinism, all we see is fantastical tales from start to finish. We ask how protein came into being. Darwinism says by chance. We ask how the cell came into being. Again by chance, it says. So how did the cell develop? How did organs emerge? How did human beings start to see? And hear and speak? All by chance, it says. Is chance science? Of course, not. In short, Darwinism is a heretical, imaginary religion entirely based on chance, with absolutely nothing to do with science. It is a manifest deception. It is clear that Muslims should not be taken in by such a deception.
4)There is a recent movie by Ben Stein, called "No Intelligence Allowed," in which he documents the ostracism that American scientists face if they refuse the theory of evolution—ostracism in their academic careers, impossibility to publish in respected journals. He also traces the relationship of Darwin’s ideas to extremist belief systems, especially the Nazis during WW II. Do you have any comment on this movie or an academia in the US, the Western world, the Mid-East, or in Turkey?
ADNAN OKTAR: It is perfectly obvious that Darwinists have established a global dictatorship. Under official protection in 95% of the countries of the world, the theory of evolution has had its invalidity scientifically proved, and despite being a false theory that violates reason and logic, it is still imposed as an official ideology. In middle and high school and university exams it is obligatory to answer questions about the theory of evolution as if this false theory were true and correct. No academic or scientist who even hints he does not believe in Darwinism is allowed to continue with his work or to enjoy any promotion. And it is arranged that the majority lose their jobs. It is almost the first time in the history of the world that such an ideology is officially protected and imposed in just about every country of the world. This system, which manifests itself as a social dictatorship, has established a hugely repressive regime. They have even tied the Vatican’s hands with the pressure they made. The Vatican issued a statement about Darwinism just the other day, and the terrible nature of the situation is evident from that. They have made the Vatican incapable of saying, "There is no evolution." European materialists and Darwinists imagine they can resurrect Darwinism by making the Vatican issue statements in favor of it. But the fact is that Darwinism is dead, and no initiative can bring it back to life. It is now time to bury Darwinism for good.
5)Believers might argue that science is a means of using calculated observation to learn more about the world, while unbelievers might argue that science is the only way to know about the world, and consider it "unscientific" to believe anything that cannot be observed and then calculated by logic. But the essence of belief is believing in things that are unseen—to believe in Allah, angels, Holy books, prophets, the Day of Judgment, and destiny—all of these things are not ordinarily observed except perhaps by believers. And even in the Qur'an I believe it says that there is a veil between believers and unbelievers that prevents unbelievers from even seeing the proofs of belief that believers can see. And even believers vary among themselves and from day to day in the amount of their belief and their willingness and ability to see the unseen world around them. Therefore what is the way for believers to counter the arguments of unbelievers when those two groups come to blows with each other as they frequently do, in the realm of science?
ADNAN OKTAR: Using a genuine, rational and clear style, one based on evidence, has always been a very important and effective method, insha'Allah. Everyone can explain and understand things to the extent ordained by Allah. When someone is guided to the true path, he is guided so because it is ordained by Allah in his destiny, not because we explained anything to him. Of course the things we say are an instrument, but if Allah does not open someone's heart, then he cannot understand what he hears or see what is before his eyes. You can show him thousands of proofs and explain things in countless ways, but he will still not change. Of course, one has a responsibility to strive and tell people the truth, but one can only preach to the extent Allah permits. However, we must not forget that when a Muslim preaches, he is not preaching to the person opposite him, but to an entity Allah creates in his brain, in an area the size of a lentil. That person does exist on the outside, but we can never have direct dealings with that person on the outside. We have direct experience of images established by an electric current of a few amps. This is a very great secret, a great blessing to grasp the depth of faith. This is knowledge that enormously deepens and strengthens a Muslim's preaching power.
6)What is the best way for us as Muslims to work against the theory of evolution?
ADNAN OKTAR: To expose the invalidity of evolution with rational, scientific evidence. My works are an excellent source of reference here. They are the most comprehensive, the most rational, the most scientific and the most fluent works on the subject anywhere in the world. Our brothers can access the texts of all my books for free over the Internet. They can download them onto their own computers and learn the information contained in them. By Allah's leave, no Darwinist will remain intellectually unconvinced in the face of that information. It is impossible for any Darwinist to oppose all the evidence. They irrationally stand against it, but they have no rational and logical response to give in the face of the evidence. They just engage in demagoguery. But demagoguery will get them nowhere.
7)What is the best way for Muslims to study science? Are there books available in English that you would recommend to Muslims studying science in America or Europe?
ADNAN OKTAR: A Muslim intellectual is someone who thinks broadly and freely. In the Qur'an, Allah commands us to reflect deeply, research and investigate. As Allah reveals in the Qur’an, Muslims will also think and enquire and investigate. Someone consumed by a love of Allah will investigate the artistry, knowledge and manifestations of Allah with great excitement, determination and passion. All scientific and cultural progress throughout history has been led by believers. The way that Muslims today are depicted as having no idea about or are kept away from science, knowledge, art or cleanliness is a tactic employed by materialists and Freemasons. Muslims must not fall for that snare, but will raise their levels of knowledge. They will enhance the joy of seeing Allah's artistry through scientific enquiry. I recommend that my Muslim brothers read the works of Harun Yahya. These have been translated into 67 languages and are all available free of charge on the Internet.
8)What is the best way for Muslims to pursue scientific education in the West, in the current climate where a refusal to believe in evolution is considered tantamount to a career-ruining heresy?
ADNAN OKTAR: Darwinists impose evolution by mafia-like tactics, but this is nothing more than an effort to raise the dead. They are wasting their time. Darwinism is dead, and merely needs to be laid to rest. If my Muslim brothers are subjected to pressure in their schools or where they work, they can, in one way or another, express that they do not believe in evolution, but that they are subjected to it. For instance, in the answers to exam questions, students could add a note saying “I do not believe this”, “I do not find it at all scientific, but since I am obliged to answer the question...” By Allah's leave, this Darwinist dictatorship will soon be overthrown. We can hear the sounds of creaking even now, and will soon hear the sound of it totally collapsing, insha'Allah.
9) What are the contributions that Muslims can make to scientific inquiry today? Or in other words what do you suggest as very fruitful avenues of inquiry for Muslim scientists?
ADNAN OKTAR: Someone with a passionate love of Allah will draw enormous pleasure from His artistry and the manifestations of His sublime mind. Anyone enquiring or reading with that love and fervor will obtain most excellent results and this will be instrumental in great advancement. In the same way that religion encourages scientific research, so scientific enquiry conducted in the light of the truths revealed by the faith will produce very rapid and definite results. Because the faith is the only source able to provide an accurate and certain account of how life and the universe came into being. Science can only produce accurate findings so long as research in conducted along the lines of investigating Allah's omnipotence and the proofs of creation in the universe. Only if the right course is taken, if it is accurately directed in other words, can science achieve its true objective in the shortest possible time.
By Allah's leave, we will all see in the time of Hazrat Mahdi (as) the enormous advances in science that fervor and joy of faith will be instrumental in bringing about. The spiritual strength Hazrat Mahdi (as) is instrumental in bringing about will lead to the greatest scientific and technological developments in the history of the world, and will be more delightful, beneficial and effective than people have ever dreamed.
10)What are the most important contributions that Muslims have made to the foundation of the world's science in the past?
ADNAN OKTAR: Believers throughout the course of history have always developed and made the best use of science. All kinds of technological advance in the time of Nimrod were made the best possible use of by the Prophet Ibrahim (as) and the believers with him. The technical knowledge acquired during the time of the pharaohs also served the prophets Yusuf (as), Musa (as) and Harun (as) and the true believers living at the time. The highest levels of technology achieved in architecture, art and communications in the time of the Prophet Sulayman (as) were used in the very best way. The wealth and majesty our Lord bestowed on the Prophet Sulayman (as) as a blessing have amazed people down the generations. Muslims carried out great advances both in the time of our Prophet (saas) and after. The reason and observation Allah teaches in the Qur'an led to the birth of a great civilization, in the 9th and 10th centuries in particular. Many Muslim scientists raised in that period made important discoveries in such fields as astronomy, mathematics and geometry. Many names and examples could be cited on the subject. If my brothers would like more detailed information they can find it in my book, The Qur'an Leads the Way to Science, available from the www.harunyahya.com website.
11)You have argued that these are the Last Days and there are many clear signs that Prophet (saas) mentioned about these times—so what advice do you have for believers in this time?
ADNAN OKTAR: What our Prophet (saas) tells us is the truth. He acts in compliance with Allah's revelation. He described the portents of the End Times through Allah's revelation, and they all have come to be truth. These portents can all be found in the Kutub-u Sitte (the Six Books). In addition, the Qur’an makes it very clear that the moral values of Islam will rule the world. This is crystal clear in verse 55 of Surat an-Nur. There are various other verses of the Qur'an regarding the domination of the moral values of Islam over the world, and they can all be seen on my www.awaitedmahdi.com website. The subjects of Hazrat Mahdi (as), the coming of the Prophet Jesus (as) and the End Times are matters on which all four schools are in agreement; the Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliqi and Sha'afi schools are unanimous on the subject. The appearance of Hazrat Mahdi (as) and the return of the Prophet Jesus (as) are absolutely certain. That is also the case in Shiism. Indeed, the Shiite and Sunni schools make up 95% of the Islamic world. Nobody has ever maintained anything different. The hadith I have set out in my works and writings are hadith that have been verified and found completely trustworthy. Had they not been verified, there might have been doubts as to their reliability, but they have been confirmed. Our Prophet (saas) says that the portents of the End Times will happen one after the other, like the beads on a necklace. When one ends the next will start, he says. He says wondrous things will happen one after the other. Note how wondrous things are now happening in the world, the portents of the End Times have all taken place within 20-30 years. The eclipses of the Sun and Moon during Ramadan, for example, is something highly detailed. It happened in 1400 by the Hegira calendar. The Prophet (saas) says the waters of the Euphrates will be severed. And the Euphrates was cut off by a dam and the flow of its waters stopped. The newspapers carried reports saying the Euphrates had been severed, and the truth of our Prophet's (saas) hadith thus emerged. Our Prophet (saas) says there will be carnage in the same region. The massacres by the PKK are clearly set out. The Prophet (saas) said that blood will be shed in the Qaaba at the beginning of the century in which Hazrat Mahdi (as) appears. He says the Qaaba will be occupied. And that all happened. Everything he said happened, one by one. He says that Afghanistan will be invaded, Iraq will be occupied and divided into three parts and Muslims will be blockaded in Palestine; and these things have all happened. A great economic crisis is described in detail, and that has also happened. There are hundreds of other portents, and people can read these on my web sites. It appears from all these portents that Hazrat Mahdi (as) has begun work and that the coming of the Prophet Jesus (as) is close at hand, insha'Allah. That is why I always say that Muslims will seek Hazrat Mahdi (as) and pray for the coming of the Prophet Jesus (as). "We sought but could not find"; this is out of question. A Muslim must pray for them. And then Allah will create them, bring them into being. I keep on saying that. Because the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as) is certain. The coming of the Prophet Jesus (as) is certain. The global dominion of Islamic moral values is certain. I do not concentrate on an event unless there is something wondrous about it. I am someone who looks at everything rationally. I evaluate things in the light of the evidence, I sign up to rational and correct ideas and follow the truth 100%. I go along with what is 100% true. The portents of these happy days have come about, and Muslims have a duty to experience that joy. They will see the abundant blessings of this age and experience all its beauty, insha'Allah.
12)In America Salafi / Wahhabi ideology is very pervasive and powerful. Most mosques are influenced by this ideology. Money for mosques frequently comes from Saudi Arabia. "Scholars" are influenced by the teachings they learn in Medina and Mecca, under Wahhabi teachers. So what are the influences this has upon the minds of those who study it and upon the Muslim community as a whole?
ADNAN OKTAR: I am a Sunni and a member of the Hanafi school. But I love all my Muslim brothers, no matter what their idea or school. They are all very dear to me, and I want them all to be happy. By Shiite brothers, my Wahabbist brothers, I regard as very perfect with excellent taqwa, insha'Allah. We are like the students in a school. But we all study at the same school. I mean, we all serve the same objective. We are as one. We are all brothers. Muslims must never, ever, harbor enmity toward one another because of school differences. All schools have taqwa. They are all scrupulous when it comes to the faith. There is no difference between us. Because we share one Allah, one book and one Qibbla. We believe in the same prophets. Everything we have is the same. That is why for Muslims to keep their distance from one another because of school differences is terrible corruption. It is something that true Muslims can never do. I look and see my Shiite brothers are full of taqwa. I look at my Wahabbist brothers and they are full of taqwa. Why this talk of school differences? Why look askance at them? That is wrong. Muslims must only compete in taqwa. Allah says that in the Qur'an. He says there is a contest in terms of taqwa. We compete in taqva, but we are all our perfect, beloved Muslim brothers. A spirit of opposition because of differences of interpretation would be very ugly. It would mean playing into satan's hands. My brothers must be terribly careful over that. Muslims must really love one another.
For example, when a Sunni meets a Shiite or a Wahabbist he should immediately embrace him, ask after his health and behave like a true friend. I sometimes hear about them not praying behind one another, and that is out of order. One should happily pray behind them. We may be Shiites, or Wahabbists or Sunnis, but it makes no difference; we are all brothers. That is just playing into the hands of unbelievers. By the same logic, love and affection for a sincere Christian or a sincere Jew is also most important. In other words, they, too, are entrusted to us by Allah. They believe in the same Allah. They love the same prophets. A spirit of affection toward them is most important. That is what is compatible with the Qur’an and the Sunnah of our Prophet (saas). The Jews lived at ease in the time of our Prophet (saas). Christians were also really at ease. He even had a Christian concubine. She was a Christian. According to the Qur’an, one can eat the food of the people of the Book. One can marry their daughters. One can go and stay over in their homes. One can talk with them. They are also servants created by Allah. Allah has created their destiny in that form. So we must avoid any discord, and it is really important for Muslims and all believers to love one another.
13)Thank you for your time, and thank you for all of the work you have done for Islamic belief in the world today. There are very few people like you. Before there was Ahmad Deedat, and there are a few others—people who are lions for Islam in debating with unbelievers and building belief—could you point to any other people who are doing such important work for believers? Also, as the future comes, can you point to any people from the next generation who appear to be carrying on such important work?
ADNAN OKTAR: Fear constitutes a grave form of corruption for Muslims in the End Times. They hesitate, saying, "But what if I am imprisoned, or beaten, or sworn at, or slandered or killed?" But whatever happens, they will earn merit accordingly. Is our aim not to earn Allah's approval? Most Islamic countries have been unnecessarily afraid and experienced terrible suffering. Had they been courageous and rational, Allah would not have inflicted that suffering on them. Strength belongs to Allah. Nothing apart from Allah has any strength. Allah bestows fear and troubles. Allah bestows afflictions on cowards. Allah protects the brave. Muslims have a duty to be brave. For example, when it comes to the establishment of the Turkish-Islamic Union, some Muslims say nothing out of a fear of "What will they say?" The fact is, however, that it is a sin for Muslims not to be united and act together. Sin is a spiritual burden. In other words, it is obligatory in the eyes of the Qur'an for Muslims to act as one, as brothers. The door is open to all kinds of scourges so long as they do not do this, so long as they are not united. But some Muslims carefully avoid this, out of such fears as "Such-and-such will react like this, so-and-so will not want it, what will they say?" or are even unable to raise the subject at all. But no matter what they say, we will obey Allah’s command, we will be united.
Muslims fear only one thing; they fear Allah. Nothing apart from Allah should not be feared. If Allah wishes He can make the world a very different place and easily have the Turkish-Islamic Union accepted. And we will then want it and strive with all our might and cry out "The Turkish-Islamic Union must be established." Once the Turkish-Islamic Union has been founded, no harm will come to even a single hair on Muslims' heads. And then let’s see whether they can line up the bodies of dead Muslims, children and all, and take photographs of them. Will they then have the courage to crush the Muslim world underfoot like ants? The bloodshed will stop instantaneously, all the oppression will immediately come to an end, insha'Allah. And why should the world not want a Turkish-Islamic Union? The union we espouse is a union of love and friendship, that will protect and embrace all with affection and compassion. Why should anyone not want that? I cannot conceive of any society, any government not wanting a union that will resuscitate the global economy, bring about an end to terror and bring prosperity to all.
For that reason, I always tell my brothers to concentrate on union at every available opportunity, in their writings, or talks or conversations. They must constantly demand that their governments establish the Turkish-Islamic Union; insha'Allah, those demands will be of the nature of a prayer to Allah. When I talk about a Turkish-Islamic Union under Turkish leadership this is not something resulting from any pretension to racial superiority. The Turkish nation is willing to bear troubles and difficulties. Assuming the role of elder brother is a hard job requiring sacrifices. But both historic circumstances and also social conditions make Turkish leadership essential. As the descendants of a nation who gave order to the world for 700 years in the time of the Ottoman Empire, the Turkish nation will again be willing to act as elder brother to and be the protector and servant of its Muslim and Turkic brothers, insha'Allah.
14)Do you believe the hijab ban will be stopped in Turkey? The hijab ban is a source of shame for us even living here in the US. Because when people ask us about human rights in Muslim countries, one of the first glaring examples of lacking human rights is the hijab ban. So do you believe the government will let go of its fear of Muslims and allow them to practice their religion?
ADNAN OKTAR: Some people in Turkey have an unfounded fear, and that must first be put right. The fact is that democracy and secularism lie at the heart of Islam. Islam allows people the right to believe and express their ideas as they wish. It is a rule in Islam that there must be no pressure in religious matters. Freedom of thought is a requirement of Islam. It has taught mankind democracy and secularism with the reason and conscience brought about by religious moral values. People must be told that. They must be told that their fears are groundless, that everyone, no matter what they may believe, is a first-class citizen. But the stipulation about the hijab in the Qur'an is perfectly clear. It is also set out in the hadith. There is nothing to argue about. These young people are very devout, our young girls want to turn up wearing the hijab. So what? Nice, polite ladies turn up. Of course there may be a diverse range of opinions. Everyone can think in different ways. Just so long as all our citizens are given the right to live as they wish and are given guarantees of freedom and democracy. Let young girls wear the hijab if they want. A laic regime, the republic, is embedded in Turkey. I regard it as totally inappropriate to make such a fuss within such a system about a handful of young girls wearing the hijab.
15)What is the principle that gives you the energy to do the work that you do? Is there some advice you can give to us if we feel lazy and unable to help good people to do good work?
ADNAN OKTAR: I am madly in love with Allah. Allah must be loved with a mad intensity. That Allah we love with such joy with love must enter our minds the moment we get up in the morning. We must start the day with the joy and delight of Him, with a joyous, festive air. Because we are under the control of an infinite mind, an infinite power and infinite compassion. This is an extraordinarily delightful thing, and we constantly see His blessings everywhere. Our lovely Allah has prepared His eternal paradise for us. Of course the joy of that pervades our hearts and we must not forget it for a moment. We must spend every moment of our lives, from morning to evening, in the festive joy and fervor of Him, and must even experience the joy of Allah in our dreams. He will even influence our dreams if we experience that great joy. So no sloth or idleness can ever be possible, insha'Allah.